বাংলাদেশের স্বাধীনতা যুদ্ধ দলিলপত্র (দ্বাদশ খণ্ড)/২০৩
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| পাকিস্তানের প্রেসিডেণ্ট কর্তৃক ভারতের বিরুদ্ধে যুদ্ধ ঘোষণার হুমকির পরিপ্রেক্ষিতে আলোচনা এবং পররাষ্ট্রমন্ত্রীর বিবৃতি | রাজ্যসভার কার্য বিবরণী | ২১ জুলাই,১৯৭১ |
CALLING ATTENTION TO A MATTER
OF URGENT PUBLIC IMPORTANCE
(Reported Thereat of the President of)
(Pakistan to Declare War on India)
SHRI N. G. GORAY (Maharashtra): Sir, with your permission, I beg to call the attention of the Minister of External Affairs to the reported threat of the President of Pakistan to declare war on India and the reaction of the Government of India thereto.
THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SARDAR SWARAN SINGH): Mr. Chairman, sir President Yahya Khan is reported to have said that “if India made any attempt to seize any part of East Pakistan; he will declare war.
Pakistan has been trying for some time to mislead the world into thinking that the situation in Bangladesh is a matter between Pakistan and India whereas in fact it is a matter between the military rulers of West Pakistan and the people of Bangladesh. It is the Pakistan regime's own actions, and the brutalities committed by the Pakistan Army in Bangladesh, that have landed Pakistan in a morass in Bangladesh. Only a settlement with the already elected representatives of the people of Bangladesh will enable the military rulers of Pakistan to extricate themselves from this morass.
So long as Pakistan does not recognize this, the activities of the Bangladesh freedom fighters will continue and increase. When the freedom fighters succeed in liberating territory in Bangladesh and Pakistan uses it as a pretext for attacking us, them I must make it cleat that we are ready to defend ourselves.
We have no desire to seize any part of Pakistan. President Yahya Khan is either trying to mislead his people and the world at large or preparing them for an aggression against India by making such unwarranted any baseless statements.
SHRI N. G CORAY: Sir, I have raised this question because it comes at a time when we have to rethink about the whole strategy. I would like to point out first that General Yahya Khan has minced no words when he gave the interview to Mr. Neville Maxwell, the author, whom we know very well. He said that if India attempted to step up its interference in East Bangla, he would declare a general war and let the world take note of it. I would like to know from the Minister of External Affairs whether he has tried to understand the implications of this threat. Only a few days back our Defense Minister assured the whole country that so far as weapon-to-weapon is concerned India is very well prepared, but this assurance by him seems to have created no impact or no impression on General Yahya Khan. He has been bold enough to say: “I will declare a general war and he further goes on to point out: “I am not alone".
So he has really served notice not only on us but on the entire world and he is accusing India of interfering in the internal affairs of Bangladesh. So the irony of the whole thing is that what started as a trouble, as a revolt, of the people of Bangladesh has now been made a source of trouble for us, and we are being accused of interfering in the affairs of Pakistan. I would like to know how long this Government will continue this particular posture which is really heaping humiliation on our head. We have to receive all the refugees, and the refugees are coming in such large number that only yesterday the Minister in charge of refugees said that did not know when the influx would stop. Not only that. He said that they had already reached the colossal figure of 70 lakhs. He said that lakhs of refugees are expected because there is likely to be a famine in Bangladesh. So it looks that India will always be at the receiving end. On the top of it, Yahya Khan threatens a general war and he also says that he is not alone. What is the reaction? The reaction is, again he has repeated what he said in the Lok Sabha that if we are attacked we will defend ourselves. Is this the postural? Are we not already attacked? This number of 70 lakhs of refugees, he himself said, is a sort of civil invasion. Now, when this invasion country when it continues to a point where the entire economy of this country will be ruined, where this country may be involved in communal strife, where this country will be completely humiliated in the eyes of the internal world, when all this is happening, al that the Foreign Minister has to say in reply in the Lok Sabha and even today is that if we are attacked, we shall defend ourselves, When will you give up the defensive position and when will you tell the world frankly and unequivocally that India has reached its limit of patience, we cannot bear any more now, we just cannot tolerate any further civil invasion or any other invasion and we will be within our rights to lake possession of such territory of East Bengal where we can rehabilitate these refugees, and if it means war, we are ready. Instead of that, he goes on saying that we shall defend ourselves, we shall defend ourselves, and Yahya Khan says that he will declare war, I would like to know what posture India will adopt.
SHRI GODEY MURAHARY: (Uttar Pradesh): He will take note of what is happening
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: I hope he does not expect me to answer his question. So far as our posture is concerned, I have spelt it our very clearly in the statement and i would appeal to the hon. Member not to crate difficulties by verbal presentation which is not in our own interest. That is the only appeal that I can make.
SHRICHITTA BASU: (West Bengal). That has been no answer from the Minister.
SHRI CHITTA BASU: May I know from the hon. Minister whether he has considered that the question of recognizing Bangladesh today has acquired greater and larger urgency in the context of what is happening round the world?
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Who do you ask me every day?
SHRI CHITTA BASU. He says that every day the question raised by me. I raise it every day because according to me, if the Government of India is really interested in fulfilling the pledge given by it to the people of this country and to the people of Bangladesh, then there is no other way but to recognizes the free, democratic Republic of Bangladesh. They have been saying that they will consider the question of according recognition at the appropriate time. They have not ruled it out. If I am incorrect, he is on record to say that we are not opposed to giving recognition to Bangladesh only a few days ago, a day or two before. But the question is not being opposed to recognition, but the question posed is whether we are to give recognition today if not tomorrow in the seem that it has acquired a larger and greater urgency in the charged conditions
My second question is this. Now I am quite in agreement with the Government that we do not want war with Pakistan. But that does not mean that we do not want to help in a material way, the freedom fighters of Bangladesh who are fighting for the liberation for the freedom of their own country. In view of the threat being given by President Yahya Khan, does the Government want to slacken the material aid that they propose to give. In the existing situation they should make it quite clear to the people of the world, to the people of Bangladesh, that the Government of India is determined to give all material help and take all possible steps for the intensification of their liberation struggle in Bangladesh.
My second question is this. Pakistan has now given a threat that they will declare war against India. It is already not a fact that they are waging an undeclared war causing damages to the life and property of Indian nationals? May I know what is the reaction on our Government to this kind of undeclared war now being waged by Pakistan even today?
Again, Mr. Yahya Khan said that he is not alone. What does he mean when he mean when he says that he is not alone? Does our Government not see a deliberate cohesion between Pakistan, the United State of America and China in the matter of suppressing the freedom movement of Pakistan? If that is, may I know what measures the Government have taken in the matter of countering this kind of collision between these three big powers and mobilizing international opinion in favor of India's position and in the matter of strengthening the freedom movement of Bangladesh today?
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Sir, he asked me as to whether I can declare today if we are prepared to recognize Bangladesh. I am Sorry my reply is in the negative.
SHRI CHITTA BASU: What about tomorrow'?
SARDAR SW ARAN SINGH: Not eve tomorrow. Therefore do not ask this question again and again. The second question that is asked is.
SHRI RAJNARAIN: If not tomorrow, then day after tomorrow.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: The second question that is asked is about the second question, Parliament has adopted a unanimous Resolution of sympathy and support for the freedom fighters and we are doing everything to implement that Resolution of Parliament.
The third point that he has made is that the Pakistani military regime has already driven on to Indian Territory a large number of refugees which accounts to a sort of civilian aggression. With regard to this question of refugees I have enunciated our position very Cleary in unmistakable terms. These refugees are with us on a temporary basis. They must return to Bangladesh and it is for this reason that we have been steadfastly adhering to this principle that conditions should be created in Bangladesh which would enable these refugees to return, which means a Government which represent the people, which consist of members already elected by the people of Bangladesh. This is the policy that we have pursued and will continue to pursue. It is true that President Yahya Khan in his statement has said that they will not be alone and the hon. Member wants me to spell out as to who would be those other persons who would be with Pakistan. This is not a matter which we can discuss in this manner. There is no doubt that there are certain countries which have even made open statements that they are likely to be on the side of Pakistan. Pakistan is also a member of certain Alliances. But it does not serve any purpose for us here to enumerate them now. You can go on assessing but there is no use making public statements as to who will be with Pakistan at the time any hostilities star.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kulkarni.
SHRI CHITTA BASU: What steps does the Government propose to take in the matter of mobilizing international opinion in favour of us and against this threat?
Mr. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Please sit down.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: We are all ready doing everything possible both by contacting the representatives of foreign Government in Delhi and also by contacting their representatives in the United Nations and also in the Capitals of various countries.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Kulkarni.
SHRIA. G. KULKARNI (Maharashtra.): Sir, may I know if the Government is aware that their hope that the international community will react favorably.
(MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair)
SHRIA. G. KULKARNA: Sir, the intention of the Government in inviting the international community for help in solving the Bangladesh issue has fallen flat. I can appreciate the position of the Government when the Minister says that he cannot reply to the straight question whether the Government will take military action immediately. I can appreciate that. But sir, it is a question of humiliation that is uppermost in the mind of every Indian. I want to know whether the Government is aware that the arch enemy in all these affairs in the United States of America. I want to draw the attention of the Government to the attitude of the United state because of which President Yahya Khan, who was defeated in 1965, is taking courage again to talk such nonsense that he will attack India again. The Government must take some courage to show its reaction and recalls our Ambassador in the United States, will not over-estimate its own strength. Secondly, I want know whether the Government will also take note that like the United States, the U.K and the U.S.S.R. also have not done anything to stop the atrocities of Yahya Khan. The U.S.S.R. has not come to our assistance to the extent expected. SO, sir, the Government should review the whole Bangladesh problem and take proper steps. They should recall our Ambassador in the United States. This will create some impact on the minds of the American public and some fruitful dialogue will be started.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I think h has already replied to this question about recall of our Ambassador. Let us not repeat the same question to which the hon. Minister has already replied.
SHRIA. G. KULARNI: I have raised it in a different context.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Whatever it is he has replied that the Ambassador will not be recalled.
SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: That question was regarding the dismissal of the Ambassador. I have asked for the recall of the Ambassador temporarily.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Sir, I do not think it will be wise to recall our Ambassador. We must not forget that this suggestion generally in made and experience shows that this does not help. We have not recalled our Ambassador-our High Commissioner-even from Pakistan and even in Peking we keep a mission. Therefore, it is not proper for us, merely because we do not agree with the policy of a particular Government, to recall our Ambassador. That is not a very practicable suggestion. That is all that he has asked.
MR. DEPUTY CHARIMAN: Mr. Lokamath Misra.
SHRI BIJU PATNAIK (Orissa): Is the Minister in a position to give an assurance..
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have called Mr. Lokanth Misra please.
SHRI BIJU PATNAIK: I was just asking for a clarification...
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: But I have to follow the list before me.
SHRI BIJU PATNAIK: I am not making a speech. I am just asking for a clarification.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRAMAN: I think Mr. Misra is also seeking a clarification.
SHRI BIJU PATNAIK: I only wish to know from the Minister.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: No, no, please sit down.
SHRI A. D. MANI (Madhya pradesh): Sir, he comes very rarely to the House. You should please allow him.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: After all, we have to follow the list first.
SHRI V. ANANDAN (Tamil Nadu): It is not a question he is asking. HE is only asking for a clarification and you can allow him.
SHRI BIJU PATNAIK: I wish to know from the Minister if he will kindly clarify.
SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE (West Bangal): On a point of order. I hope my friend will not take it otherwise the practice has been that you call the list first and thereafter the list is exhausted, if anybody else wants to ask for clarifications he can ask. I think the honorable Member there can ask for clarifications. Certainly he is entitled to ask for clarifications.
MR. DEPUTY CHARIMAN: All right, Mr. Patnaik, please sit down. Now Mr. Misra.
SHRI LOKANATH MISRA(Orissa); The United States of America has betrayed all the democracies of the world by chasing after chou-En-Lai's favor who is an aggressor thereby ultimately supporting Yahya Khan, which has given Pakistan, rather which has emboldened Pakistan to throw a challenge to India for war. Our Foreign Minister is very complacent when he says that in case of war we shall take up the challenge, we shall defend ourselves. I do not know how far the gentlemen sitting by the side of the Foreign Minister is in agreement with him even though outside Parliament House he makes all sorts of statements saying that we are prepared to face anything. That s what we were also hearing from. Mr. Krishana Menon before 1962. And since the Minister gets protection from the Chair in regard to our defense preparedness in the garb of national interest, all this is concealed from the House and no Member of the House really knows what the Pandora's box contains in the shape of fence preparedness.
SHRI P.C MITRA (Bihar): You know that India has got no capacity to defend.
SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: Extra smartness of Shri Mitra will carry him nowhere-neither here nor in Pakistan.
Let me go on with my own queries. Pakistan has already given us a warning. This morning during the Question Hour our Foreign Minister said that we have also been served with a warning by China. To that particular warning. I have my greatest of objections. India is not a student in a Chinese class room where the Chinese Government could serve India with a warning. We should have rejected that warning and thrown it in the waste paper basket. That apart, since Yahya Khan has been emboldened to issue this threat, supposing he cooks up a case.
SHRIA.P. JAIN (Uttar Pradesh): That is very hypothetical.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You do not reply to interruptions. You put your question.
SHRILOKANATH MISRA: I object to shri Ajit prasad Jain's remark. He had the experience of being a Central Minister and still he becomes irresponsible. Therefore, I take objection to that. People of his status should he a little received on matters like this. He should not be flippant like other standing in the queue for Ministership. He should not be that flippant.
SHRIA. P. JAIN: I said it is hypothetical.
SHRI COKANATH MISRA: I should have that reply from Sardar swaran singh and not from shri Ajit Prasad Jain till he becomes a Minister. He does not count now.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You put your question.
SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: shri Ajit prasad Jain, so far as government of India is concerned, is insignificant, whatever might be his loyalty for Shrimati Indira Gandhi.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: In this respect, you are wrong.
SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: He may be somebody in the Congress Party.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: He counts a great deal-much more than you count in your Party.
SHRI LOKANTH MISRA: But so far as this House is concerend, I take mo notice of Shri Ajit Prasad Jain.
SHRI LOKANATH MISRA; that is right is very well put.
Supposing in the guerilla warfare launched by the Bangladesh people, they take possession of some area in Bangladesh and Yahya Khan said that it is because of the interference by the Indian Government and then wages war against India. In that case, would Sardar Swaran Singh give his reaction to such a proposition which is very likely? Probably this appears to be a hypothetical question to Shari Ajit Prasad Jain's fertile mind.
SHRI A.P.JAIN: Yos said you would not take notioce of me. Why do you take notice of what I said? I thank, I am too much in this head.
SHRI LOKANTH MISRA; In such a situation, what would be the reaction of the Govermen t of India? The Foreign Minister always makes tall statements that we have also some nations on our side. Could he name any such nation or one such nation on our side? I shall be grateful to the Foreign Minister if he could name one such nation which will come trip will prove to be worthwhile.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: With regard to the first question. I will refer to kparagraph 3 of my statement which I have already read out. His second question does not arise out of this.
SHRI LOKANTH MISRA: We do not have a copy of his statement. I take objection to this.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You have heard Statement.
SHRI LOKANATH MISRA: How do I know the third paragraph? The statement was dictated and got typed by him.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH:, I will read it:
“When the freedom fighters succeed in liberating territory in Bangladesh and Pakistan uses it as a pretext for attacking us, then I must make it clear that we are ready to defend ourselves”.
SHRI LOK ANATHMISRA: Is that the reply to all the questions?
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: What about the second part of the question? Can you name anyone country which will be with India?
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: That does not arise out of this.
SARDAR LOKANTH MISRA: Suppose there is a threat of war. On a point of order.
SARDER SWARAN SINGH: This cannot go on. I am sorry this has gone on like this. I am not going to enter into such a discussion.
Sir, it is amazing that these things are talked in this light manner. It is not in our public interest.........
(Interruptions)
SHRI LOKANATH MISRA; Sir, who is this gentleman to say?
(Interruptions)
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: It is not in our public to disclose those things and I will never disclose them.
SHRI LOKANTH MISRA; Sir who is this gentleman to say that? Sir, he is going beyond his limits.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He says that it would not be in our national interest to disclose all those things that you are asking.
SHRI LOKANATH MIRSA: Is it in the public interest not to say that?
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: That is what he says.
SHRI LOKANATH MISRA; Sir, do you agree on this point? If it is, then what are we here for?
(Interruptions)
SHRI PITAMBER DAS (Uttar Pradesh): sir, at least one point very clearly arises. He may not like to give the names. But is he in a position to tell us that we are not alone? Can he tell us this?
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: I have already said that.
SHRI LOKANATH MISR: How many countries does he think are on his side?
MR.DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He has said that India is not alone. That is what he has said.
(Interruptions)
DR. BHAI MAHAVIR (Delhi) The Minister is not alone. He has so many other Ministers on his side.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Yes, I am not alone. Dr. BHAI Mahavir is with me.
MR.DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr.Bhandari
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Really he has not asked me any question except that he has put forward his own thesis of the likely unfolding of warlike activities.You cannot expect any body to answer in public as to what action you take when your own security is threatened . It will be for the experts to decide as to what action, if any, they have to take.
SHRISUNDAR SINGH BHANDARI: At least Pakistan is indicating them.
SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: We have heard the statement of the hon. Minister for External Affairs. If the statement means this in spite of provocations, we shall not be provoked into sending troops into Bangladesh, our country will not be provoked into sending troops into Bangladesh, Our Party agrees with that proposition. Our party agrees with the proposition that the Indian Government must not send any troops into Bangladesh. But I ask the hon. Minister this question: As far as guerilla warfare is concerned, the guerilla in Bangladesh is concerned, is it a fact that the statement that all possible help will be given to the guerillas fighting in Bangladesh or for Bangladesh, will be stuck to by this Government?
My second question is this: If that is the position, than is it a fact or not that the guerillas who are going inside Bangladesh, capturing Pakistan army equipment come back near our border, and our Army, our Border Security Force, is confiscating that equipment on the ground that this equipment may fall into the hands of the Communists? Is it a fact or not?
My third question is this: Is it also a fact that the guerillas are going into Bangladesh, capturing Pakistani military equipment, which is being confiscated by this Government and when they again go there this Government is giving them only 203 bullets and ordinary arms, and are not giving these arms which are being confiscated
SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN (Andhra Pradesh): May I appeal to the hon Member to reconsider his question?
SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: May I ask: Is this the way the Government is supporting the guerillas fighting for Bangladesh? My last question is this: The hon. Minister has said that if the guerillas...
SHRIA.G. KULKARNI: What is the necessity of this question?
SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: I am entitled to ask questions. My last question is this when the guerillas will be able to liberate the territory, if that pretest is made by Pakistan to attack the liberated territory as well as our own country. What steps does the Government propose to take? These are my question.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: I am sorry that all the facts that all the facts that he has mentioned are not correct. These are questions which are not based on fact, these are not at all correct. He has based his questions on absolutely wrong premise....... (Interruption).. Let me answer the questions.
SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: That is the allegation against Government of India that the Government is confiscating the equipment which the guerillas are capturing from Pakistan. I have talked to the leader of the guerillas who are actively pursuing the guerilla activities. You are sabotaging the Bangladesh struggle.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: I am not generally accustomed to make prophesies but I am sure that the Member has today stated will be quoted against us in the several international forums and I will appeal to him not to indulge in this exercise.
SHRIA. P. CHATTERJEE: On a point of order.
SHRI NIREN GHOSH (West Bengal). It is time you desist from diabolical activities.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: It is time you desist from fomenting anti national activities.
SHRI A.P. CHATTERJEE: I charge: I charge that Mr. Swaran singh is a person in the pay of the Americans. Therefore he is fighting against Bangladesh.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You cannot make irresponsible statements in this House. It is very wrong to make irresponsible statements.
SHRI A. G. KULKARNI: Anything said against the Minister of External Affairs should be expunged. All the things said about equipments etc. Is a political thing and that should go out of the proceedings. It will be international used against our Indian Government.
(Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY CHSIRMSN: Order Please.
SHRI A. G. KULKARANI: I am on my legs. Let me compete. Mr. Chatterjee has taken this occasion to propagate his pray’s views which are akin to the Chinese and Naxalites views. All this has gone into the record. It has to be expunged. Mr Swaran singh has rightly replied to him. All that Mr. Chatterjee said should go out of the record. It should be expunged from the record.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Sit down please.
THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (SHRI M. S. GURUPADASWAMY): I want to submit that all of us are very much concerned about this issue but till now we have been debating this issue though critically, but we never took a partisan attitude. All along all the political parties tried to rise above party interests and took into consideration mainly the national interest. Today, I am sorry to say. Mr. Chatterjee indulged in certain things which are not conducive either to help the formulation of a policy or to give a redefinition of our attitude or to project our thinking in the important matter. On the contrary his questioning has exposed us to certain things. I am sure they are not his international but I would appeal to him, as a fellow Member, that on an impotent issue like this, when we are formulating a national approach whatever may be the differences between us and the Government we have differences with them when we are projecting our view, we should, I think, be careful and avoid all reference which may expose us and this country and our people to criticism which will not be good at all and which will jeopardize our interests. Therefore as a Member of the Opposition, I appeal to Mr. Chatterjee to reconsider the whole things and whatever may be truth or otherwise of what he what he said, he should desist from making such statement on the floor of this House.
SHRI A. G. KULKRNI. It should de expunged.
SHRI M. S. GURUPADASWAMY: I do not say expunged Let us not create to controversy over this issue. I would say that he should not press this question further and this does not require any answer from the minister. Whatever may be the differences between us we should confine our remarks within the framework that we have been following all along and I hope and trust that my colleague, Mr Chatterjee, will reconsider this position and realest from the position he has already taken and will not press his question further.
SHRINIREN GHOSH: sir, may I say.......
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please sit down.
SHRINIREN GHOSH: I have to say something on what he has said just now.
MR .DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Niren Ghosh, please sit doun.
SHRI NIREN GHOSH: Afterwards what? I have to say.....
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I am standing, sit down please.
As suggested by Mr. Gurupadaswamy, we are just trying to evolve a national policy and we must always try and think from this point of view wheter our saying anything or asking any question will serve the national interests or not. If it does any harm to the national interests I would appeal to hon. Members that they should desist from making such observation and from asking in the House.
The hon, member Mr. Chatteree bas also made some very objectionable remarks about Sarder Swaran Sinngh. When we are performing our duties in this House........
SHRI A. P. CHATTERJEE: Iam prepared to withdraw provided he withdraws the word 'anti national'.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: ....... hon. Member should use responsible language in the House. The paramount consideration in everybody’s mind should be that we will not do anything which will do even the slightest harm to our national interests.
Now, Mr Bhupesh Gupta.
SHRI A.G. KULKARNI: What about the records? The records should be corrected.
MR.DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I will go through the record and see what can be done.
SHRI NIREN GHOSH: Sir, I do say that it would have been proper for you to make your observations after you have heard me. Upon Mr. Gurupadaswamy's remarks without allowing me to say anything you stood up and from the Chair......
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I t is not necessary that every Member should be allowed to say something after one Member has mentioned something.
SHRI NIREN GHOSH: Please let me finish from the Chair you made operation observation and by way of reply and explanation I would like to say that it is quite correct that we should try to evolve a unanimous approach to this question but unfortunately you, as well as the House, and the entire country, know that the Government is not doing so. That is the trouble; that is point of difference. They have succeeded in dividing the country. Now, sir, is in a renowned paper like the statesman with a banner headline that report appeared which was referred to by Mr. Chatterjee, and so far they have not come up with any rejoinder or any denial.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He has already denied it today.
SHRI NIREN GHOSH: Today fifteen days back that report appeared with a banner headline and it is not a party paper.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: It is all right he has denied it now.
SHRI NIREN GHOSH: We know from experience that we are engaged in divisive activities; the Government of India is engaged in divisive activities harmful to the freedom struggle and is it not the right of Members of parliament to expose it? Would we not betray the trust that is reposed in us as Members of Parliment if we did not bring it to the notice of the country 2 We should always remember that.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: I never said you May I clarify?, I never said said that any of the Members is anti national, but I did say that to raise this discussion is not in our national interest.
SHRI NIREN GHOSH: You used the word anti national.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Anything that is not our national interest is anti national.
SHRI NIREN GHOSH: Go through the record
SARDAR SWARIAN: I did not say any Member is anti national, but what he said is anti – national and I repeat that.
SHRI BHUPESH (West Bengal): Yahya Khan’s — I do not call him president nowadays— statement came almost immediately after the announcement from peking and Washington that Mr. Nixon would be visiting China. Therefore, there is some connection between the announcement of the proposed Nixon visit to Chana and Yahya Khan’s statement threaning a general war against our country. It seems that the first contributory act of the proposed Nixon visit to China is the statement of Yahya Khan threatening war against our country and yet we are told that the paking Washington detente would lead to the relaxation of international tension. We are very happy that at least in the Democratic Repubic of Vietnam, the central origin of the working people's party of Vietnam. “Man Dan" has come out with aqn editorial which was reproduced here yesterday in which the Nixon doctrine has been denounced and the proposed visit has been branded as a move to have some kind of compromise between the big powers at the cost of the small nations and various other things have been said. Weel, Sir, coming from the Democratic Republic of Vietnam such an of en, frank and forthright castigation of the Nixon policy in relation to the proposed visit to China si cerainly welcome and that only shows that the potential Allies of India are .....
DR. BHAI MAHAVIR: Have these thingh anything to do with this calling Attention motion?
SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Please do not disturb me.
MR.DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please do not disturb him.
DR. BHAI MAHAVIR: You are not taking on the Calling Attention motion, but.....
SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I am talking on the Calling Attention motion, just as you talk. I need not be told how to talk. When you discuss so many things I do not object. The moment I say this thing, my friend gets up.
(Interruptions)
DR. BHAIMAHAVIR: You propagate the point of view of the USSR even on this.
SHIRI BHUPESH GUPTA: This is objectionable. They do not want any friend at. They are intersted in communal riots in our country.This is what I say. If you are interested in friends, then at least try to understand their reaction to the proposed Nixon visit to China
SHRI MAHAVIR TYAGI (Uttar Pradesh): Do not speak in tone of Yahya Khan.
SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I think you speak in the tone of chenghis Khan. There is visit of Mr. Nixon. Now, in this connection one thing I do not understand. Why should sardar swaran singh say that he welcome the style of Chinese diplomacy? What is the style in it? He welcomes the style, but we would like to have some substance put in. The style, if it at all as Machiaveilism. There is no other style in it all. This kind of style or diplomacy is harmful to the cause of world peace, harmful to the relaxation of international tension and certainly in our context extremely harmful to our national interest also.
Naturally, Sir, nothing is to be welcome. I believe some smart Ics officer ICS officer sitting in the secretariat has coined this phrase, “Style of diplomacy is to be welcomed". This is the sylhrt of the ICS. Sardar swaran singh is a wiser and more mature man. He should not take such things from the secretaries and other people. There is no style in Chinese diplomacy.It is absolutely bed style. As a Communist I feel ashamed that a country with a socialist leadership, which belongs to Communism, should have entered into this kind of gun boat diplomacy with President Nixon whose hands are dripping with the blood of the Vietnam people and who is supplying arms to west Pakistani troops. Therefore I think....
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You ask your question please.
SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: The style part is over. I do not blame sardar swaran singh for it very much because I thought that he was trying to use some very smart phrase. He did so-and you also do so and it is wide of the mark.
Now the question arises. My friend has pointed out here. It is a very significant statment that if you try to take any part of territory of East Bangal or East Pakistan, we shall declare general war against you. This is an advance preparation for what in international law is called 'creations of casus bell'. when the liberation force enter Bangladesh, taking territory ultimately reaching Dacca, even before that, the West Pakistani troops and Islamabad will say that India is taking the territory. Therefore the declaration has to be implmented, a general war against India. That is the motive behind it .It is the preparation.
Now sir, I think here also we should take into account this threat also from his preparing the ground for an attack against our country. We need not be upset by it. I entirely agree with him. We are prepared for it if they do so. They are also trying to restrain by this kind of statement India help to the liberation forces. They want to blackmail India a position of retreat instead of going forward in helping the liberationforces, sir, Bangladesh Bangladesh shall be liberated by the freedom fighters of Bangladesh with the abundant support and good will of the entire people of our country.
1.P.M
I have no doubt about it. We are not for war against Pakistan. We are not for armed intervention against Pakistan. But we are committed as a nation, as a people, as a kith and kin, to give full support the liberation fighters of Bangladesh, and we shall continue to do so whatever the treat or from wherever the arms may come to Islambad. That is the position and it should be clearly stated.
Sir, this statement is also intended to provoke India and acts of indiscretion Therefore, I am agreement with sardar swaran singh when he asked us to be restrained because General Yahya khen has some political motives behind making such statements. He thinks that by making such statements he would put our people off the ground and make us say or do something which he may exploit for his own ends. I think we shall not play into play into hands......
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: That is enough.
SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Let me finish Mr Yahaya Khan, That is the position. Therefore, in this matter two things clearly stand out. The only lesson we draw from General, Yahya khan’s statement is that we should recognize Bangladesh as soon as possible, if possible tomorrow, if possible today. Why I say is because General Yahya Khan is coating legal ground for his action, a fake ground Certainly, recognition of Bangladesh will create a locus stand for us, to render more help than the Indian are already giving at this time. I am not mentioning the help by Government of India. Therefore recognition is importat. Massive assistance should be given. And why not from this side and from the other side also thousands of people, well- trained, well-equipped, organised into a truly national liberation front march towards the centers of power. We should be interested in that, sir, I think these are the two conclusions that we should draw from the statement......
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: That will be enough.
SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA.............. and we should not allow to be upset or provoked.
Finally, with regard to the appeal. An appeal is not needed here. I entirely agree that we meet the situation only through a united national approach and there cannot, as far as possible, in one voice, act as one man and also stand before the world representing the entire people of our country.
Sir, this matter will not be settled through supplementaries. Such international questions are not decided by asking supplementary or through clarifications put to the Ministers and ans where given by them. Some jof the things we should speak in Parliament. Other things we shall deliberately not speak in Parliament. For them there are other channels communication between the Opposition and the Government. This is what should be done ........
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: All right.
SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Yes, Sir, This a very critical situation. Chiina the U.S.A..and Pakistan are lined up against us. Do not under— estimate them. Let us not take a despondent view that India does not have friends in the world. We have many more friends them either the U. S. A. or China or Pakistan all there put together. Let us have that confidence. It will be seen at the testing time who has more friends. We have friends because our stand is honorable and just, because we stand for the United Nations Charter. I am sure the conscience of the world is not lost and they really, nation after nation. Let us not take a roll call of the nations to see as to who is Supporting us and who is not supporting us...........
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Please sit down.That would bd enough.
SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Finally, the Government should also seek the opinion of the Opposition constantly, have constant consultations with them because they have grievances and other things. They have suggestions to make so that can be communicated in a manner which would not be needlessly liable to misuse by other or exploited by other. I think the Government should maintain proper initative in this matter. Consultation with the Opposition is very essential at every step with a view to not only arousing the national conscience but also with a view to ensuring that it is implemented. At the same time we should also put our influene..........
MR.DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: That will be enough.
SHIR BHUPESH GUPTA; Please do not disturb me. I am finishing. Weshould give all help to the national liberation forces in the Bangladesh and to the freedom fighters all freedom fighters should unite in a National Liberation Front. That is a precondition for the final dictum.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: I am thankful to him for putting several aspects in proper perspective. I have taken a careful note of some suggestions that he has made.
MR.DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Patnaik.
SHRIBIJUPATNAIK (Orissa): I have only one a question to ask.
SHRI SITARAM KESRI (Bihar): I want to put a question.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: I have already called one Member from your party.
SHRI BIJU PATNAIK: I am sorry that the hon’ble Minister made the statement that he will not entertain the question of recognizing Bangladesh today and not even tomorrow. Does he realize that when this statement goes out into the world press and to Pakistan what reaction it would have on the morale of freedom fighters of Bangladesh? The Prime Minister in this House has wisely stated that this refugee influx is only for six months.
She set a time limit and it was said that if is not solved within six months, India would be forced to take certain steps. And to make a further impact on the world conscience, Ministers went round the world. So will not the External Affairs Minister consider revision of at least this statement that is, “I will not recognize Bangladesh today, certainly not tomorrow"? This I think, is going against all the policy statements that he has made so far, all the policy statements that prime Minister has made so far, all the policy statements that the Government of India’s Ministers have made so far and the statments the two Houses of Parliament have heard so far. The Prime Minister said six months. The External Affairs Ministry in its wisdom may extend it by another there months. But to say “not today, not, not tomorrow" is going against the prime Minister’s statement and Resolution of Parliament. I would request the hon. Minister to revise that portion of his statement.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: May I clarify? I would only appeal to hon. Members that in a matter of that importance, the same things need not be repeated again and again, I would like, however, to clarify that when I say “tomorrow" it does not mean any time in the future. Today is Wednesday, Tomorrow is Thursday. I mean only these two days; because you go on asking me, “Are you prepared to declare it today". I said “no".
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He has clarified that by “tomorrow", he meant Thursday only.
SHRI GODEY MURAHARI: I think Mr. Swaran Singh is not authorized even to say that tomorrow he will not recognize it. This evening the Cabinet may meet and decide to recognize Bangladesh. How is he suthorised to say “Tomorrow I will not recognize it “? This is acsolutely wrong. He should not make such a statement, He can say, “At the moment, I have no intention of recognisig it." But he cannot pre- suppose that he will not recognise it this evening or tomorrow. The Cabinet may meet the next hour and decide
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Perhaps the hon. Minister knows the mind the Government better.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: If that happens, I will come to the House and announce it.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr.Rajnarain.
SHRI MAHAVIR TYAGI: I take that the meaning is that they are going to recognize Bangladesh at the appropriate occasion.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Rajnarain.
শ্রী রাজনারায়ণ: মহোদয়, আমি বিনয়ের সাথে বিশেষভাবে আপনার কাছে নিবেদন করছি একটা প্রস্তাব পাশ করার পর তার ভাষা ও ভাব বিস্মৃত হব এমন কোন কুঅভ্যাস আমরা গড়ে তুলব না। আমি আপনার অনুমতি নিয়ে ওই প্রস্তাবের একটা অংশ পড়তে চাই যাতে এই পরিষদের সম্মানিত সদস্য এবং সরকারী সদস্যগণও সর্বসম্মতিক্রমে গৃহীত প্রস্তাবটি হৃদয়ঙ্গমকরতঃ ভবিষ্যত কার্যক্রম নির্ধারিত করেন।
“ভারতের ভৌগোলিক অবস্থা ও ইতিহাস সংহতি ও ঐতিহ্যের শত শত বর্ষের প্রাচীন সম্পর্কে এই উপমহাদেশের জনগণ আবদ্ধ হওয়ার কারণে এই পরিষদ তার আপন সীমান্তের এত কাছাকাছি ঘটমান ভয়াবহ ব্যাপার সম্পর্কে উদাসীন থাকতে পারে না।”
এই একটি মাএ বাক্য যথার্থভাবেই দিকদর্শন করে যে আমরা এবং পূর্ব বাংলার জনগণ, বাংলাদেশের জনগণ এক। আমাদের সংস্কার ও সম্পর্ক শত শত বর্ষের পুরাতন। আমাদের ইতিহাস,আমাদের ভূগোলএই প্রমাণ করে যে, আমরা এক ছিলাম, আমি চাই সর্দার শরণ সিং একথাও হৃদয়ংগম করুন। ১৯৪৭ সালের ১৪-১৫ জুনে যে প্রস্তাব পাশ হবার পর ভারত পাকিস্তান সৃষ্টি সম্ভব হয়েছিল, ওই প্রস্তাবের ভাষা ও আমি এখানে পড়ে শোনাতে চাই। সর্বভারতীয় কংগ্রেস কমিটি তার জন্মলগ্ন থেকে এক অখণ্ড স্বাধীন ভারতের স্বপ্ন দেখেছে যা অর্জন করতে লক্ষ লক্ষ নরনারী কষ্ট সয়েছে। যে ভারতের স্বপ্ন আমরা দেখেছি তাকে ইতিহাস, ভূগোল সমুদ্র ও পাহাড় এক সত্তা বানিয়েছে।
আমি চাই সর্দার শরণ সিং এসব কথা স্মরণ করে জবাব দেবেন এ প্রস্তাব পাশ করার পর সরকার কি কি পদক্ষেপ নিয়েছেন।
উপ সভাপতি: ঠিক আছে এরুপ প্রশ্ন করুন।
শ্রী রাজনারায়ণ: দ্বিতীয় প্রস্তাব শুনুন।
উপ- সভাপতি: প্রস্তাব সকলের জানা আছে।
শ্রী রাজনারায়ণ: এই সভা গণতান্ত্রিক জীবন ব্যবস্থার জন্য পূর্ববাংলার জনগণের সংগ্রামের প্রতি নিজের গভীর সহানুভূতি ও একাত্মতা ব্যক্ত করেছে একাত্মতা অর্থ ভারত ও স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের আত্মা এক স্বাধীন বাংলাদেশের ওপর হামলা আমরা নিজেদের ওপর হামলা মনে করি এটি ওই প্রস্তাবের ভাষা ও তাৎপর্য। একাত্মতার অন্য কোন অর্থ নেই। একত্মা শব্দটির মানেই এই যে, আমরা ও বাংলাদেশের লোক এক। এই একত্মা শব্দটি নেয়ার পর ও এই সরকার চার মাস পর্যন্ত নিস্ক্রীয় রয়েছেন এর অর্থ আমি বুঝি না।
দ্বিতীয় কথা আমি বলতে চাই, প্রস্তাবের শেষাংশে রয়েছে এই সভা তাদের আশ্বাস দিচ্ছে যে, তাদের ংগ্রামও ত্যাগ ভারতের জনগনের আন্তরিক সহানুভূতি ও সমর্থন লাভ করেছে। এতদূর সমর্থন দানের প্রস্তাব পাশ করার পর ভারত সরকার স্বীকৃতি দেয়ার প্রশ্নে পাশ কাটিয়ে চলেছেন এই সরকার কি ওই প্রস্তাবের প্রতি বিশ্বস্ত? আমি চাই, সর্দার শরণ সিং মহাশয়, তাঁর মধ্যে যদি ঝবহংব ডুভ ৎবংঢ়ড়হংরনরষরঃ অবশিষ্ট থাকে, অকপটে স্বীকার করবেন যে, ভারতের বিধান সভার সদস্যদের সংগে বিশ্বাসঘাতকতা করেছেন। সর্দার শরণ সিং কি জানেন উওর প্রদেশ বিহার রাজস্থান যেখানে যেখানে তাঁদের দলের সরকার আছেন তাঁরা প্রস্তাব পাশ করেছেন। স্বীকৃতি দেবার জন্য প্রস্তাব পাশ করেছেন উওর প্রদেশ, বিহার, বাংলা, রাজস্থান। সে সময় যেখানে যেখানে অধিবেশন বসেছে প্রায় জায়গাতেই প্রস্তাব পাশ হয়েছে।
উপ- সভাপতি: ঠিক আছে রাজনারায়ণ বাবু এখন শেষ করুন, বসে পড়ুন।
শ্রী রাজনারায়ণ: কিন্তু সরকার এ যাবত তাদের মর্যদা দেননি। তাই আমি বলতে চাই এসব কিছু সত্বেও এই সরকার আজ অবধি স্বীকৃতি দেয়ার কথা ঘোষণা করেছেন না। আজও সর্দার শরণ সিং বৃহস্পতি, শুক্র, শনিবারের কথা বলেছেন এড়ফন্ধু ফন্ধু ধভঃবৎ গুড়সড়ৎৎড় িএরুপ বলা কি সর্দারজীর পক্ষে শোভনীয়? আমি বলি মোটেই না ...... আজ ইয়াহিয়া খাঁ আমেরিকাও চীনের ন্তন সম্পকের দিকে তাকিয়ে ঘোষণা করেছেন, মুক্তি সেনারা ও যদি বাংলাদেশের কোন অংশ দখল করে নেয় তাহলে আমরা তাকে হামলা মনে করব এবং সাধারণ আক্রমণ হিসাবে তার জবাব দেব। এত কিছুর পরে সর্দার শরণ সিং এর একথা বলতে কি অসুবিধা যে বাংলাদেশের ওপর পাকিস্তানের আক্রমণ ভারত তার নিজের ওপর আক্রমণ বলে মনে করে। জার্মানী পোলাণ্ডের ওপর হামলা করল। ইংল্যাণ্ড বলল, আমরা এটা নিজেদের ওপর হামলা মনে করব। আজ আমাদের প্রতিবেশী দেশ বলছে ভারতের সংগে আমাদের একত্মতা আছে। বাংলাদেশের প্রধানমন্ত্রী, বাংলাদেশের অস্থায়ী রাষ্ট্রপতি কি বারবার চাইছেন না যে ভারত তাদের কে স্বীকৃতি দিক।
সর্দার শরণ সিং: ইনি তো সবার চেয়ে ওপরে গেলেন।
প্রতিরক্ষামন্ত্রী (শ্রী জগজীবন রাম); চ্যাটাজীকে ও মাত করে দিলেন।
শ্রী নবল কিশোর; আমি সব সময় মাত করি।
শ্রী নবল কিশোর: আমি বলেছি যে,পাকিস্তান এরুপ করেছে।
শ্রী নবল কিশোর; আমি জিজ্ঞেস করেছিলাম আপনি আগে আগেই কোন ষ্ট্রং এ্যাকশন নবেন?
SHRIBHUPESH GUPTA: I entirly agree with him, sir,
SADAR SWARAN SINGH: Sir, donot think that he has asked any question. There is no question that he has asked except that he given certain views.
Sir, I would only like to say one or two things about the questions that he has specifically asked. He has mentioned that there may be an attack by Pakistan against us in the Jammu and Kashmir territory or any other territory. In this respect, the Defense Minisiter has already made clear statement that we are fully prepared to defend our territry and to defend our sovereignty and integrity. You cannot expect either the Defense has to be organized.
SHRIN.G.GORAY. He mentioned the name of one general.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Whether it is one Genral or two Generals it is immaterial.
SHRDR SWARAN: No, he only wanted to know whether you are aware of it.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: We are aware of it and we are aware of it much more than he is aware of it.
SHRIN. G. GORAY: Naturally it should be so.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Now, sir, he has raised several questions about the Resolution of Parliment, about the action taken by us,etc.i would humbly ask him to have a look at the Calling—Attention Notice. This relates to the war threat by President Yahya Khan and this does not at all arise out of the Calling – Attention Notice. So, let us obwerve some rules of relevance any way.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Mr. Nawal Kishore.
SHRI NAWAL. KISHORE: Sir before I put any question, I would like to make a small request to you and that too with the best of intentions, to kindly change, if possible, the timing of these calling—Attention Motion, particularly when they are in connection with the External Affairs Ministry. This is just a request to you. Now, so far as the Minister is concerned, may I ask.
SHRI SUNDAR SINGH BHANDRI: What is the implication of this? We would like to know, Sir.
MR.DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: He has only made a suggestion.
SHRI SUNDAR SINGH BHANDARI: When he says that this should not be at this time, particularly when he is relating to the External Affairs Ministry, what does he mean by it?
SHRI NAWAL. KISHORE (Uttar Pradesh): I made a request to you. That’s all. May I ask the hon Minister of EXTERNAL AFFAIRS to shed off his indifference to the fast changing events of the world and tell us frankly whether he and his Government would ever act on thieir own, because the story goes round that Indian Government never acts; it only reacts.
Sir, after the declaration of President Nixon's visit to China, Pakistan has changed its position from being defensive to offensive and has threatened us with general war.And still, Sir, there is no reaction of the Government, except the statement of the External Affairs Minister that we would defend when attacked. May I know: Is there anything in the mind of the Government now start immediately giving military supplies, if not troops, to Bangladesh?
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: These cliches the Government only reacts but never acts, have become quite old. And for a senior member just to pick up these phrases and frame a question on them does not behave his seniority and signity.
The second question that he asked is: Are we going to change our posture from seing defensive to offensive.......
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: We should be prepared to defend ourselves. That is the best form of defense.
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Then he says that no reaction has come. This is the reaction that I have given to this House. Igave a statement in the other House yesterday there was a statement by President Yahya khan and there is a statement by me. This is the reaction........
(Interruptions)
May I request the & hon. Member to think over, when he goes home, the implications of the question that he has put? I have no doubt that he will agree with me that his question was ill – conceived. You should never put any idea of that nature and you should try to understand the implications when you make a suggestion of that type. I have no doubt that in a calmer moment he will agree with me that this is not the form in which questions should be put or in which the questions should be answered. I will only appeal to him think over this matter once again, and not ask me to spell out anything. It is unwise to pose a question in that from.
About the third question, I would not like to reply at all.
SHRI MAHITOSH PURAKAYASTA (Assam): May I know from the hon. Minister of External Affairs whether the Government of India’s attention has been drawn to areport published inthe frist page of daily 'Dawn' of Karachi, dated June 9, 1971, on the visit of Dr.Kissinger, President Nixon's Assistant for National security affairs, I am quoting an extract from that. It reads as follows;
"According to foreign diplomatic circles here ........
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Why should we put in Pakistan's point of view in our Parliament?
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You can only ask a question. Why do you read it? You need not read it. Just put your question.
SHRI MAHITOSH PURKY ASTHA: Background is necessary.
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Why do you want to quote it?
SARDAR SWARAN SINGH: Why do you forward Pakistan's point of view here?
SHRI MAHITOSH PURKAY ASTHA: According to foreigan circles, the U.S. officials, that is, Dr. Kissinger and others, are exploring the possibility of a United Nations force on the border as a check against the possibility of breaking out a conflict between the two countries.
May I know from the External Affairs Minister whether Dr. Kissinger, when he was here, discussed this point with the leaders of our Government and may I further know whether it is to pave the way for posting a United Nations force on the India – Bangladesh broder that General Yahya khan is talking of war?
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: How can such a question be replied to?